Frontal Shots on Elk

[POk3s]

Didn't wanna highjack BowElkDwn's story but who here takes or would take a frontal shot on elk?

My personal opinion is that no matter how close an elk is to me I will not take that shot. There's just too much that can go wrong. Do people kill elk every year with frontal shots? You bet but it's a shot I'm not willing to take. You almost HAVE to hit that elk in the heart for a quick human kill, otherwise the best you can do is put a hole through one lung by the way the lungs are situated in the chest. Think about the area you have to hit in order to get both lungs. Very, very small area.

Anybody here killed an elk with a frontal shot that ended up in a quick kill? I'd love to hear the story.

I myself won't take a shot until the elk is broadside or quartering away.

[foxvalley]

I killed my first bull with a frontal shot at about 45yds. (yardage not recomended) It was the last couple days of the hunt, and we called in 2 bulls,the smaller one came up about 50yds and then came right at me. I was in front of a huge stump, but somehow he saw me, and started to backpeddle.I was at full draw and I can still remember being as solid as a rock on his chest and it kinda just went off by itself.The bull turned and spun on his now busted shoulder and crashed to the ground and started rolling down the mountain!! After 3 rolls he finally caught himself, stood up, and just stood there facing away.I ran up and shot him again.Any time I can get another one in, I shoot,reguardless of what I hit. Anyway, he went a couple hundred yds.before dying. This shot is not the typical frontal shot that you want, as my arrow never penetrated the chest cavity, It hit to the right of the brisket,busted the leg bone, and severed the leg artery as he was facing dead on to me.
The elk has more of a barrel type frontal chest/ brisket, compared to a whitetail,which has a more "V' type frontal area. It's much easier to kill an elk in the front than a whitetail because of this. Your arrow will penetrate the chest if hit between the brisket and the front leg,better if he is quartering to you.(Not like this bull,which was dead straight on) You will usually hit where the heart, lungs all come together with this shot, if you shoot low enough in the chest, about 1/3 up. I think this is a good shot to take at a closer range, and better yet if he is quartering to you. This is how you will see so many bulls if you do things right, coming at you! Look at pics of elk that are coming towards the camera and envision where to place the arrow.

[Goneelkn]

Speaking from first hand experience, it's a very doable shot. Mine was at 14 yards. Hit the heart dead center and the bull went 30 yards and turned around to look at me. Tipped over about 15 seconds later. Penatration was up to the fletching on a 31" arrow(2317) with 1 1/2" broadhead

[cnelk]

Yup and will again... not long range shots tho. Less than 25yds is ideal

My buddy with his cow I called in for him last year

[POk3s]

Honestly shocked this thread is 3 for 3.....unless some of the "horror stories" haven't commented. I've just heard about too many of them "I thought I hit him perfect but after 2 miles and finally losing blood yada yada yda."

[foxvalley]

Lots of horror stories with whitetails and this shot.(Even with the gun) The arrow or bullet wants to slide between the skin and outside of the ribcage. I think I would have lost my bull this way if I hadn't broke his leg and cut the artery.

[cnelk]

Honestly shocked this thread is 3 for 3.....unless some of the "horror stories" haven't commented. I've just heard about too many of them "I thought I hit him perfect but after 2 miles and finally losing blood yada yada yda."

I have heard many of the 'perfect broadside shots' lost elk too...

[POk3s]

lol very true cnelk.

[wapitibowman]

I have a friend who has killed 3 bulls with frontal shots, massive blood loss. Another guy I know, killed a 330+ bull with a frontal shot. I think the key is proximity, shooting ability, and knowledge of anatomy. I would venture to say it is probably one of the most lethal shots when properly executed. This should probably be reserved for 20 yards or less. If that arrow gets inside the chest cavity, it is almost a sure kill. I have never heard of a fronal shot that enters the chest cavity and exits, so that arrow just makes scrambled eggs of the insides.

I had quite a conversation with Elknut about the frontal or quartering-to shot a few years ago. He had some great insight.

Wapitibowman

[westaner]

I've never had the opportunity since I've started studying the anatomy, but really confident where to aim now after two autopsys of elk. Here's the first one.

[westaner]

The last photo has a knife keeping the leg in place. The easiest reference point for aiming high enough is where the scapula and the next bone join, the front of the >
I wouldn't aim lower! Give me a few days and I'll upload autopsy video I made from a frontal shot bull.

[BowElkDwn]

I have taken a few elk and deer with the frontal shot. As others have said I only take this under 20 yards. One of my quickest kills ever is with the frontal shot. Dropped in sight for the count. I don't recommend the shot but when properly excecuted it is one deadly shot. It really depends on the encounter sometimes it is the right thing to do and sometimes not. I don't know how many that I have passed up just being in the wrong situation. As always things can go wrong just like in a broadside shot. The area is alot bigger to kill in on a broadside bull but that means people also take longer shots and the same thing can happen. Not a perfect shot. Only take shots that you are comfortable with and know will put the bull down. Still things can happen and that is really just hunting. No one likes it but that is part of the game. Be as ethical and as honest with yourself as you can.

[POk3s]

I've tried looking up the anatomy on a frontal shot westaner and I'm glad you are posting these pics!

[cnelk]

3 days after we killed the cow, I called in 2 bulls for my other buddy.
One bull took the arrow to the front also - at 19 yds - the entire arrow disappeared into the chest.

The bull didnt go far at all

[foxvalley]

Awesome pics westaner!

[ElkNut1]

Yes, good info & photos! Taking Frontal Shots is a personal decision that only we ourselves can answer! If a hunter is unaware where to place the arrow on Frontal or Quartering too you shots, then don't take the shot!!! Anytime you shoot & hope for the best because you didn't know where to aim then it's a huge roll of the dice where us hunters rarely hit the jackpot! Knowing an elks anatomy is crucial, you must realize where the vital organs are & if you have the horsepower to reach them! Too, can the elk get out of the way before arrow arrives? No doubt this is why all here say 25yds or under & your odds of success rise! I have taken several deer & elk as well with this shot situation! It is extremely deadly & generally requires a bit of ice water in your veins! (grin) Too, there are many veins & arteries that feed the heart lungs up front there! You're not just trying to reach the heart!

What happens when most lose animals to this shot (yes I lost one) is they hit the elk in the front shoulder or just inside it as Foxvalley mentioned! You must be able to look through or into the animal to what the arrows path must be. Too, is the animal above you or below you in elevation, this will need a shot impact adjustment when these situations arise. If uncomfortable with it I strongly urge ones NOT to take it. But for those confident in it, well there's a reason why you are! (grin)

For the record, bowelkdown did not mention in his story that just as he was touching his release for the frontal shot the bull whirled, it happened at exactly the same time, this is why the arrow entered just inside front quarter & exited just behind front shoulder, otherwise that bull would have been dead, but he did live!!! Elk can move at the shot regardless of angle, it's just something that happens! Guys, stay within your comfort zone when presented with various angles, elk are not scientific experiments! (grin) Let's have fun out there!!!!

ElkNut1

[POk3s]

I did not mean to make it sound like I was attacking bowelkdwn. That certainly was not my attention, just didn't want to hijack his thread.

The problem with me in studying an elk's anatomy from that "frontal shot" is that there's no way to look it up! I've killed a few and have never taken the time to direct them from that direction I guess. That's why I was so glad I when pictures were being uploaded showing at least pieces of the obstacles to avoid and the soft spot to hit. I've just always heard so many horror stories on people shooting an elk facing them and that I had it in my head to never even try. I haven't really been tempted with it either. I'm surprised but glad so many people have had such success on that frontal shot! I was starting to think it was impossible to kill an elk that way until reading these stories!

[Lefty]

Ive killed a two rifle bulls with a frontal shot. Took out the top of the heart each time: 53 and 39 yards
A person needs to be comfortable with the anatomy and ability for the shot. I think I have the anatomy down but not the shooting
At this time in my archery quest. 10-12 yards would be my max. My perfered frontal would be slightly quartering either way at 2 yards

[mattstanton]

every time out to 30 yards. Past that and I wait for a higher percentage shot. The frontal shot is extremely lethal and the tracking jobs are short. It is a personal preferance that goes with your confidence in your shooting ability.

[foxvalley]

http://www.dundeesportsmansclub.com/dun ... cement.pdf

This link has some cool elk anatomy, a couple of pics of quartering to looks.

[LckyTylr]

Well, after reading all of the posts above, it seems as though the frontal shot is effective, but requires detailed knowledge of elk anatomy and precision shooting.

I'm sure I'm not the only one on the forum that feels as though hitting a baseball inside 20 yards is easy (even under hunting pressure), but I don't feel comfortable taking the frontal shot because I don't feel very confident in my knowledge of elk anatomy.

Would some of you experts be willing to post up several photos of actual bulls quartering to or straight on . . . . . and place a small red dot precisely where you would want your arrow to impact given the angle of approach?

This would be very beneficial to myself, and probably others. i'm not saying that I'll feel comfortable with and take the shot, but it would be nice to know before I have to make that decision.

Thanks in advance.

[WapitiTalk1]

OK.. It seems that folks seem to be open minded on this thread. I personally believe that the largest kill zone, and, the best odds for a hunter to effectively put down a big game animal as large as a elk or moose, is obtained by loosing an arrow at a slightly quartering away or broadside animal. Be patient when you get a bull to come in, be proficient with your elk language (both making the calls and understanding what they mean), and many times he will present the shot I've mentioned. Think about it... A bull comes in to your calling for various reasons (you're very close to his herd and challenge him with "the threat" and he comes unglued, or, it's a loner who has came in from several hundred yards or more to try to get close to your cows)... If anything seems suspicious, even a bit, an animal will do what? Turn a bit as if leaving. A quick nervous grunt or pleading cow sounds may stop him momentarily, allowing you to touch off an arrow... propelling your broahead into the target vitals which there is no recovery from. All this said, don't discount a frontal shot if you understand what you're shooting at. I was waiting a bit to post this but the article below is a very good one IMO from Aron Snyder. If you understand an elk's anatomy, and, where to place an arrow, a frontal shot can be just as lethal as a broadside or quartering away shot. I've taken a few four legged creatures with a frontal shot and have recovered them all. RJ


http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/live-h ... ontal-shot

[T/H]

if the shot presents itself and the situation is right then yes, i will absolutely take and make that shot with a RazorTrick. all day long. and if it doesnt present itself i'm ok with that too. the situation would have to be right

[BowElkDwn]

POk3s no problem I didn't take it that way. Lots of good info here.

[LckyTylr]

Thanks Phantom, that's what I was after.

Does anyone have more photos (elk specific) that would show proper frontal shot placement?

Thanks.

[Freebird134]

Like some others, the responses on this thread really, really surprise me: I can't believe how many people are giving it a thumbs up, and how few people are saying it's a bad shot choice. I'm not supporting either side--I'm just surprised by the "in favor" comments.

I do find it interesting that this thread was inspired by BowElkDwn's story, in which a frontal shot was taken and did not work out so well (not judging--crud happens and I appreciate people's honesty when things go right and wrong). It sounds like the bull lived for at least a week, but we really don't know the implications of wounding that bull. Certainly it didn't feel good, and who knows if it made him more susceptible to disease and infection, or predators. We just don't know.

I can't help wonder if BowElk Dwn regrets this shot, and wishes he'd have waited for a broadside angle? It seems conclusive that the frontal shot is a lower-percent shot than a broadside or quartering away. Bowelkdwn is Elknut's son, right? From what I can tell he's a pretty good shot and an experienced elk hunter. And this elk was at 15 yards. And it didn't work. It really makes me wonder about how reliable this shot is out at 20 or 30 yards for the average hunter. More importantly, it makes me kinda go "this shot aint for me."

I have killed one animal with a frontal shot. It was a 200+ pound hog in Florida (not exactly an 800lb elk, but a tough boar nonetheless). My first shot at 30 yards deflectd off a branch, and he came running to within feet of the treeline I was standing in, stopped, and was looking for what he just heard. I was at full draw with a second arrow, but he was straight at me and I didn't want to shoot him in the skull. The second he turned his head to my left, I sunk the arrow down his throat and into his heart. A stream of blood at least 3' long shot from the wound all over the vegetation and he dropped in his tracks. There is no doubt in my mind a frontal shot is deadly, but that was 3 yards on a 200 lb hog, not 30 yards on an 800 lb bull.

[Buglemaster]

I'm kinda out on a limb on this one. Tried it one time several years ago on a bull that was coming straight to me. He pegged me when I drew & stopped dead in his tracks with that "I really need to get my azz outa here, but what is that" look on his face. The shot was only 18 yds & when he turned his head a little to look at the cow call my son had sent his way, I cut the shot.Looking back, I should have center punched the softball size "hole", but instead tried to sneak it thru inside the point of his shoulder & his neck. To top it off, I was trying a neat looking expandible with all the hoop-la that accompanied it. Poor broadhead choice , shot placement & lack of knowledge of elk anatomy cost me that bull.I hit the point of his shoulder & it stopped that arrow instantly. At his initial jump I watched the shaft do a cartwheel away from him & when I retrived it there was less blood on it than most morning shaving adventures.We watched him tending some cows the latter part of the week with only a slight limp.That helped me out personally alot cuz I really beat me up over such a stupid decision.When I cant hit a softball size target, all day long at 18yds, it will be time for me to give up bowhunting.By the way, I hit him right where I wanted, but was'nt where I should have...again, poor elk anatomy education on my part.I would bet alot that there are more bad shots on broadside animals than frontals.It is as deadly a shot as there is if executed properly.Grapefruits, practice on grapefruits inside 20 yds & take your camera cuz that bloodtrail will be a certified kodak moment.

[ElkNut1]

Freebird, I hear where you are coming from! I can elaborate a bit on what happened that day as I was there, my son is not into details like I am known for!! (grin). On bowelkdowns encounter the bull came in fast & you read above what took place, but what he didn't say was just as he was pulling the trigger on the release the bull whirled, it was too late to change ones mind as they both occurred simultaneously. As the bull turned away from him the arrow entered the bulls chest missing arteries & any organs & exiting out his shoulder right about mid height. At that angle the arrow did not travel into the body where it needed too thus resulting in the bull running off. Things like this can happen on broadside shots or quartering to you shots, animals can move or unseen branches are hit & even distance miss calculations can occur regardless of shot angles not to mention the bowarm dropping because you want to see the arrow hitting the animal thus throwing a shot off course. When these things occur you just have to deal with them & make the best of a bad situation. No one enjoys wounding an animal & then brags about it, it's a gut wrenching feeling but we as hunters must move forward. Yes, you do everything possible to recover them, when it's not possible you can't worry if they are going to get diseased & die out there, sure it crosses ones mind but there's nothing any of us can do about it, it will happen to you if you bowhunt long enough, no one is immune to sooner or later loosing an animal to poor shot placement or even at what you feel is a good shot placement. Only take shots you are comfortable with. No one is trying to convince anyone to take a shot that isn't for them. In bowelkdowns case he's taken many animals with that frontal/quartering to you shot, he knows where to aim but all circumstances are not in our control, there will be good & bad, hopefully a lot more good! (grin) If you lose an elk on a broadside shot under 30yds will you quit taking it? I've had that very thing happen to me, I still bowhunt & I still take broadside shots!

The Frontal or Quartering to you shot is extremely deadly, I would never pass it up when it is within my parameters & the elks head is up & not down towards the ground, thus opening up a lethal avenue!

Here's two examples in what can happen to us bowhunters, the first elk shown here was shot at 14yds, bowelkdown called this bull in to me, at the release of the arrow out of my longbow the bull was broadside but whirled at the shot, guess where I hit him? Right through the front of his chest as he turned right into the arrow, yep a frontal shot, hit him right in the heart!

2nd photo is another elk I took, this one with a compound, the shot was 28yds, bowelkdown kept this bull vocal for me in heavy timber as I left him & pursued the vocal bull as a silent shooter. This bull was broadside too & not moving at the shot, at the shot the bull dropped towards his knees giving that famous dip in an effort to blow out of there, I caught him smack in the shoulder/scapula blade with a 3-bladed muzzy 125grn. That was not my intended spot to hit??? I was at the mercy of the broadhead & a tuned arrow, it busted through the lower portion of the Scapula & into his lungs, it could have been a disaster but it wasn't! You see crap can happen, it's one thing to just write those words & another to actually experience happenings in the elkwoods! I could relate to you dozens of others too that have taken place over the years! There's just nothing automatic about killing elk & everything goes right all the time! Sure we want things to always work out in our favor but we have to be realistic too! Thanks!

ElkNut1

[BowElkDwn]

Just to clear things up, I do not regret that shot one bit. I do regret what happened after the shot as I was sick for awhile. I would take that same shot 100% of the time in that situation, as I would a 30 yard broadside shot. Things happen while elk hunting and anybody that has hunted for long enough knows that. I would venture out to say that there are not many people that have hunted for more than a few years that have killed every elk they have shot at.

[Jahnke76]

I cant speak for the past with elk seeing I have yet to go but with a whitetail I will take a quartering too shot under 20 all day long. After seeing the pictures of the disected elk I will take the frontal shot if it presents itself. Anyone that knows me can tell you That I refuse to take shots on animals with an arrow unless I know without a doubt the shot will kill the animal quickly and humanely. I have been lucky and only lost 1 animal in 19 years of hunting because of it. If I dont feel comfortable with the shot I will let it walk but will take shots some people wouldnt ever take. Like many have said, if you have hunted for any lenght of time you will lose and animal or make bad shots.

[Freebird134]

I can't get this thread off my mind now. It's got me thinking about missed opportunites because my hunting partners and I have never even considered taking a frontal shot (except the hog I mentioned earlier, which was half self-defence). During our last elk hunt, we were cold calling mid afternoon when a monster mulie walked down a trail straight at my partner. It was within yards....feet even....and he was at full draw waiting for a broadside shot. It got too close and he tried to send off an arrow as it spun to bolt, and missed it. That buck should be on his wall right now.

[ElkNut1]

Let me get this straight!!! First you despise it & talk of it as if it's the devils advocate & now you're kicking yourself for passing up past frontal shots & too boot your buddy takes a very low percentage hail mary shot at a retreating bruiser buck & that's a OK!!! Wow!! What a turn around!!!! (big grin) Just kidding with ya but you gotta see it's pretty funny!!!!

ElkNut1

[POk3s]

Yea not sure I understand that. I've taken and succeeded at frontal shots on antelope. Not as scared on a smaller animal. Deer have never presented the opportunity.

[Freebird134]

No Paul, I didn't despise the frontal shot at all. I tried to be pretty clear in my previous posts that I 1) wasn't judging or leaning either way and 2) I was just surprised how many people supported this shot because I've always been taught not to do it. Honestly, this has probably been the most eye-opening thread I've read in a while.

If it came across like I despised the shot, it was just my confusion because it is news to me. I read everything here, I read the link to Aron's article RJ put up, and I did more research around the internet. Like most things, I try to keep an open mind. I did the research, and the arguments are sound. Can't a guy learn and grow??? About my buddy, you are absolutely right. But I was NOT OK off his hail mary shot! I was thankful for a clean miss and we didn't have a wounded buck on our hands!

Isn't this the point of this forum: learn and grow to be better elk hunters? This discussion is definitely opening my eyes.

[slim9300]

Inside of 20 yards, I will take the shot with confidence. Of the 10 elk I have been lucky enough to kill, not a single one was shot facing me.

[ElkNut1]

Brandon, cool! That's awesome it's opening your eyes! Now don't go & take that shot without some serious study on where to place the arrow depending on the shot angle & elevation of an elk! All is important there, then hope the elk doesn't JUMP or TWIRL around!!! It's good to see you have an open mind, we all need to be this way! Thanks!

ElkNut1

[32hunter]

My second year elk hunting i wondered off alone and in the middle of the day sat down inside some bushes and started playing with my cow call. I was not very good at calling so i was playing with diferent sounds that i could make and just killing time waiting for my buddies to come over the ridge. I had been calling for almost an hour when i heard a noise behind me. I turned to see a cow elk comming my way. She circled around me and came within 15 feet of me . I drew my bow and took a frontal shot. the arrow hit her a little left and deflected down her rib cage and came out of her skin behind her left leg. very little blood trail and i tracked her for almost an hour till if got dark. I told my buddies what had happened and was scolded like a child about taking a frontal shot. Since then i have had several opertunities to take a frontal shot but have always passed on the shot. I was sick for days about wounding that cow and still today would probably not take that shot. I believe it can be made just like a 90 yard shot can be made but it still may not the the best decision when facing the fact that if u dont place the shot perfectly the odds are high u will wound an animal. ill stick with broadside shots 60 yards and under.

[Goneelkn]

I believe it can be made just like a 90 yard shot can be made but it still may not the the best decision when facing the fact that if u dont place the shot perfectly the odds are high u will wound an animal. ill stick with broadside shots 60 yards and under.

I'd take a frontal shot at 15 yards, but would never take a 60 yard shot unless it was a follow up shot on a wounded animal. Whatever you are comfortable shooting is what you should do. And yes, i practice at 60 and 70 yards all the time.

[easeup]

every time I see a frontal thread, I watch it through.
I must say this is certainly the most civil one to this point when compared to some other web forums in the past. great work guys!

Now, I have always been a little wary of the frontal just because I have never done it; but as any of you seasoned elk hunters know, when your calling there is a high percentage of them that are going to come in right at you; so I have had a number of oppurtunities to take this shot.
Fear of the unknown has let a few get away so to speak, but on the other hand alot of patience has also resulted in a few of them turning to the side to leave the dance, but they stopped as elknut and phantom stated above. At that point a well executed shot put steaks in the freezer.

With the experiences presented here, I think I will keep the frontal shot advice in my "playbook" for future use.
thanks!!!!

[eltaco]

I've never taken a frontal, but I'd be open to a point blank opportunity if it presented itself.

I watched a video a few weeks ago of a guy taking a quartering to shot, and my jaw almost hit the floor. This shot seems super risky to me, but maybe I need to do some reading on it as well? I'll try to locate the video if anyone is interested.

On a side note.... around this time of year I find myself feeling for the soft spots and shoulder locations on my dog. I know this sounds sick and wrong, but its a hands-on anatomy lesson... anyone else do this, or should I be in a psych ward?

[POk3s]

I am also glad this thread turned out the way it did.

Quartering to shots have been brought up on here as well with some guys taking them. Hey if you know where to put that arrow and you put it there then more power to you. I'll might give a thought to the frontal shot after more anatomy lessons.

[ElkNut1]

I'm going to get some photos together with shot placement dots, hopefully it will help out if faced with this shot & how to handle it if a guy or gal is comfortable with it! Always know your limitations & try & not be taken in by the moment thinking you just have to get a shot off no matter what!! Sometimes letting an elk walk is the correct decision!

ElkNut1

[eltaco]

I'm going to get some photos together with shot placement dots, hopefully it will help out if faced with this shot & how to handle it if a guy or gal is comfortable with it! Always know your limitations & try & not be taken in by the moment thinking you just have to get a shot off no matter what!! Sometimes letting an elk walk is the correct decision!

ElkNut1

Paul, I'd be very interested in not only seeing dots, but knowing how big the kilkshot area is. Knowing the location is one thing, but knowing that you have to hit the spot the size of a silver dollar ( for example) really tells a guy how confident in his abilities he needs to be to even consider such a shot.

Its tough letting a bull walk when he's in your sights, but the agony is far greater watching a bull run off after a poorly placed shot!

[ElkNut1]

eltaco, great points & suggestions, will do!

ElkNut1

[NM_Shooter]

Sorry to revive an old post, but found this thread through a google search and joined this forum to comment with a story.

I am a rifle hunter, not a bowhunter. I only use my bow for targets, but am closing in on starting bowhunting once I feel proficient enough to do so. I am a competitive shooter across many disciplines and am a better than average offhand shot even among competitors. I became a good offhand shot by competing with an air rifle in college, and have transitioned to across the course highpower in subsequent years.

I had a brief opportunity three years ago on a bull which was a frontal shot. I stepped out onto a logging road to find myself busted by a bull 83 yards away. The sun was low and at my back, and the wind in my favor. He was head on, head up, and staring into the shadow that I was standing in. I opted to try to obtain a sight picture, and had a solid fix on a still target. I broke the shot (.300 Win Mag, 180grn Nosler partition, ~2900fps) and the bull reared back, turned left, and started to walk into the woods. I had no second shot as I was hunting my Encore. I called on my hootchie mama, and he turned to look at me, got wobbly, and went to sleep. All in the course of about 10 seconds. I reloaded, sat down, and watched him for 20 minutes. He completely relaxed after about 2 minutes. The bull had an immense body, and was a 6x6, but my tape only measured him at about 290 less 15. I am a novice at scoring.

I suspect that I would not have take that shot if the bull were not perfectly square looking at me. I would not take a bow shot with that orientation.

As a side story, my 16 year old daughter went on her first hunt this fall. She shoots her 30-06 well off sticks and can hold a 4” group at 100 yards. She found a bull only a short distance from the spot I shot mine, and watched it for 10 minutes or so. The bull was in a meadow in tall grass, and the heart / lung area was obscured a little bit by waving grass tips. Roughly a 100 yd shot. She opted not to shoot as she was concerned that grass would deflect the shot, and she did not want to try for the shoulders. She waited to see if that bull would walk a mere 15 yards to the right. It didn’t, and she was heartbroken. I was very proud of her.

I think the bottom line in evaluating an ethical shot is to understand your skills and limitations, and to be capable of keeping a cool mind in the field. Even so, we are bound to lose an animal once in awhile, but hopefully still keep losses to a minimum.

[elkmtngear]

Wow, I was just reading through this, and realized it was a "revived" thread. And a popular one at that ! Controversy = popularity I guess

Personally, I am 50 percent on this shot. I shot and killed my first bull with a frontal shot at less than 10 yds.

The second time I tried it, I made the mistake of taking a knee in the middle of a major trail, when a bull suddenly had screamed at us in the dark timber, and came bounding in ready to rumble.

Lesson learned....elk will almost always use the best trail ! I always get off to one side of the trail nowadays when I'm faced with an impending encounter, depending on wind.

When the bull got within 10 yds directly head on, there was a little bitty spruce tree between us on the trail, covering just enough of my intended target that I couldn't shoot. Knowing he would probably figure us out real soon, I took a gamble, and leaned out to my right as far as I could, so I could see my softball-sized target. The result....about a 3 inch miss to the left.

From the poor penetration, I knew we would not recover that bull. The only positive side, was that I knew for a fact that bull would bust that arrow off and continue to rut for many Seasons to come.

Would I take the shot again? We'll have to see how the pins fall...every situation is different, and I learn a little something each Season.

[Chad44]

I'm going to get some photos together with shot placement dots, hopefully it will help out if faced with this shot & how to handle it if a guy or gal is comfortable with it! Always know your limitations & try & not be taken in by the moment thinking you just have to get a shot off no matter what!! Sometimes letting an elk walk is the correct decision!

ElkNut1

Paul, I'd be very interested in not only seeing dots, but knowing how big the kilkshot area is. Knowing the location is one thing, but knowing that you have to hit the spot the size of a silver dollar ( for example) really tells a guy how confident in his abilities he needs to be to even consider such a shot.

Its tough letting a bull walk when he's in your sights, but the agony is far greater watching a bull run off after a poorly placed shot!

That would be great. Lets see some pics. I would personally take it all day long.

[Bartfrncs]

While I have never killed an Elk with a frontal shot, I have taken deer with it. If your able to stack arrows in a target why cant you place one arrow into a 4inch circle at 20 yards. Shoot within your limits dont limit your shooting.
Bart

[ElkNut1]

Since I was unable to get some photos & place a dot on them I borrowed these, I agree with these shot placements, here's a few to consider. As mentioned above I consider these doable at 25tds or less.

ElkNut1

[JGH]

About that last one ...

what organ are you hoping to hit? I think it would very likely take out major vessels and the left anterior lung, but seems high to me regarding the heart. The angle seems quite a ways off of "head-on".

I love shot placement threads ... very informative.

[ElkNut1]

John, good question & a little lower is also good , you have the size of a cantaloupe to hit there, you are looking for major arteries as well as a variety of veins, you are also heading towards at least one lung depending on what the arrow continues to carve up as it stays in the elk.

ElkNut1

[Bow4Elk]

I have taken 3 bulls with this shot. All 3 were coming down the trail I was kneeling on. I try to get off the trail if I know they are coming but sometimes they just show up. All 3 shots were within 20 yards. All 3 bulls died within 50 yards of the shot. It just blows them up inside and the arrows penetrated 30". All 3 had their heads up looking at the stump in the trail. The frontal pic of the bull is a good one. Right where the dark mane and lighter skin meet at the V puts the arrow right in the boiler room. My cousin took this shot once and was off to the side with it. The elk never did stop. Two years later we were back in the same basin and I called in a bull for my buddy. He got it and when we were quartering it we hit something metal with the knife blade between the shoulder blade and ribs. It was a broadhead from a frontal shot. We got back to camp and asked my cousin which side he hit the bull on and what broadhead he was using. Bull was hit on the right side and a 125 gr Thunderhead. Same place we found a 125 gr Thunderhead on this bull. It was all gristled over but the bull was fine. Thank goodness they are a tough animal.Every bow hunter I know hates to wound an elk but sometimes it happens even with the best of shots. Just shoot within your limits and hope the elk doesn't move.

[wideangle]

Thanks guys this post was extremely helpful!!!

[pointysticks]

Two ctrieria. Less than 20 yards and the elk has to be calm. Deadly shot I'm assuming.

[easeup]

yeh that last pic bothers me too. it has too much quarter to it.
I remember it from a thread over on AT. lots of discussion about that one too.

My instinct tells me the guys that took that one and were successful, maybe in real life it wasnt quite so quartering on and a litle more frontal.

[ElkNut1]

Always stick with your gut! If it's not for you don't risk it, elk aren't there to experiment on! (grin)

Most frontal shots have the target size of a cantaloupe, that shot easeup is referring too is at the upper end of it, it will kill that elk. If one was to hit 3" right or further you could have a bad outcome. No way would I consider slipping an arrow in behind the shoulder, you'd get maybe one lung & liver, the frontal shot dot there is a much higher percentage shot or wait for the bull to present a more favorable angle.

Frontal shots are not for everyone, it requires ice water in the veins as you stay calm & collected to pull this shot off. It's like at a 3D Shoot, you're trying to hit foam on a 6"X6" square where the rest of the target is steel. If you have a tough time pulling this shot off with an audience there's a good chance a frontal shot is not for you! (grin)

ElkNut1

[Willie makit]

The only pic I would 100% not take is #1, nothing about is says shoot. Calm, grazing, and poor angle, head moving side to side with antlers most likely in the way.

Would definitely had to have seen how the two elk arrived at their photographed position before commenting on others, only to say turn, please turn. At least in that 3rd pic his front leg is out of the equation and he appears to be much closer than pic #2.

Over the years we’ve cleaned/killed two deer at our camp and found broadheads in side them, neither one showed health issues, they are tough critters. This is the only reassuring thing we have when we do make a poor shot or can’t find them; hopefully it bothers everyone else as much as it does me. I'm really glad to see everyone here is quantifying there comments and not just saying, no problem.