Escouting Help!

[RanchoSueno]

Good evening y'all! Lady elk chaser here again and I've been hitting that elk hunting grindstone like no other. I'm pretty handy at picking up written literature so I invested in a mini library dedicated to books about elk, elk hunting and elk hunting with archery equipment with lots of info inbetween about elk, favorable habitats, food sources, vocalizations, hunting strategies and the such but few discuss E-Scouting tactics and how to get yourself into them without spending your entire hunting trip crossing off spots on your map just finding them. Especially after last season when the elk weren't much for words and severe winter kill, I am trying to get some more OnX pins on my maps so I can span out and check into other units rather than relying on the 3 I have invested in the past 3 seasons as it feels like the elk aren't always in the same spot twice. So far I have many saddles, bowls, benches and connecting ridgelines marked off. A couple timber drainages to check for an active wallow or hidden water source. What makes or breaks an area for you? How big of an area do you cover before you say they just arent active here and move on? Do you devote any time frame to let them(maybe) work through that region? Opinions and experiences from those that aren't the most patient to glass is much appreciated but I know without a doubt I need to work on myself and get glassin' because it is an indispensable tool in the elk woods

[Lefty]

Years ago after first moving to Idaho. My escouting was all about,, how far from roads/access type of cover and nearest water. ( was hunting elk in the desert) .

Now true where I hunt,, thick quakie patches near timber

[Swede]

Absolutely no offence intended, but being impatient, going to an area you do not know, to bow hunt elk you are not familiar with seems like a fool's errand to me. E-scouting will only gain you so much. I do not know if you can afford a guide but the right one in your situation could well be worth the investment. Another possibility that could pay off big would be to take advantage of Indian Summer's services. He can get you into a good area and give you a good plan to go with. You are on your own in the elk woods, but if you plan to hunt elk for years to come consider the long-term value I. S's services.
I e-scout for hours every year. I was looking over the place I plan to apply for both yesterday and today. I will check out some new spots this summer God willing. That e-scouting and on the ground, checking will give me an idea if I have a spot worth waiting at. The waiting requires patience and perseverance. As I was sharing with you above, and anyone else who is interested; the elk's range is huge. It can take ten days to two weeks for a herd to come to a well selected place. It could take far too long to consider if you are at a poor location. Sneaking up on a herd of cows and calves is no easy task. There are a lot of ears, eyes and noses to avoid. You will need some luck and everything in your favor.

Best wishes:

Swede

[RanchoSueno]

@Swede A guide is wwaaaaayyyyyyyy out of question and I'm not a newb to the elk woods, just the indepth planning of it especially in run and gun, new locations. Every year I have gone I find elk and end up with a shoot opportunity or two but have yet for me to pull it off alone. The first year, I called in several elk for my brother and he ended up with a good size cow. Most of my encounters have been from calling responses and brush popping but I have never been able to locate elk by narrowing it down on a map and making a move. It's always been a very luck of the draw, improv situation ironically near the main trails

[Indian Summer]

What state? How many ch pressure where you hunt?

I hunt areas where I don’t slow down for 2 miles. I have others where I see elk from base camp. Lots of variables but pressure is the biggest.

[RanchoSueno]

What state? How many ch pressure where you hunt?

I hunt areas where I don’t slow down for 2 miles. I have others where I see elk from base camp. Lots of variables but pressure is the biggest.

Its otc so there's always pressure but that's not necessarily what I am solely focusing on. I want to work on developing the skills to be able to look at a topo map and have a good idea how they're using the area when they are active in it. Wherever I throw a dart at the map. I don't want to just be good in a honey hole but have a better understanding of elk to be certain to get into them everywhere. I feel pretty confident with whitetails and how they use topography. When I compare it to my experience with elk, it's similar but on such a bigger scale that I seem to miss stuff. I know I won't be able to look at map, walk to the spot and be into elk but putting myself in those topographical features to find game trails and bedding areas that may or may not be currently in use

[saddlesore]

Rancho Sueno.
Check your PM concerning discussion we had previously..

Elk can move in their home range in 10 mile circle so. Maybe larger depending on the hunting pressure, available forage, cover, water. In a certain area,they may return in a week, a month or longer. It could also be an entirely different herd of elk that moves through an area,whether it is 1 or two or ten to twenty. No set pattern. Elk do have favored breeding areas and calving areas which they frequent. At times you will find small resident herds that won't move much if there is forage, water, and cover available. Generally though, elk will stay in an area 2-3days and move on to find better forage. Bulls after the rut will seek a sanctuary to recover from rut that is safe. They will tend to stay close unless they are pushed out by a hunter. Most of the time ,it is the lead cow that decides where to go,the bulls only follow.

They don't read the rules that humans seem to make and if we get too structured into thinking we know what elk will do, they will prove us wrong time and time again

[Lefty]

Rancho Sueno.
Check your PM concerning discussion we had previously..

Elk can move in their home range in 10 mile circle so. Maybe larger depending on the hunting pressure, available forage, cover, water. In a certain area,they may return in a week, a month or longer. It could also be an entirely different herd of elk that moves through an area,whether it is 1 or two or ten to twenty. No set pattern. Elk do have favored breeding areas and calving areas which they frequent. At times you will find small resident herds that won't move much if there is forage, water, and cover available. Generally though, elk will stay in an area 2-3days and move on to find better forage. Bulls after the rut will seek a sanctuary to recover from rut that is safe. They will tend to stay close unless they are pushed out by a hunter. Most of the time ,it is the lead cow that decides where to go,the bulls only follow.

They don't read the rules that humans seem to make and if we get too structured into thinking we know what elk will do, they will prove us wrong time and time again

[7mmfan]

When I'm e-scouting I focus on e a few main items, not necessarily in this order though.

Human Related. Vast areas of good elk country are void of elk, or are shortly after the season starts because of people. So you have to plan around how the elk will respond to pressure.
- Proximity to trails/roads/access
- Vertical gain from access point to area I'm considering
- Water availability for spike camp hunters

Elk Related
- Time of year is important. I look higher and for water sources in early seasons, and lower with good escape habitat and feed for later seasons.
- Topography. This is 2 fold. Elk are where you find them, but I generally think they prefer ground with a mix of steep hillsides/canyons and benches/flats. It's rare for me to ever find them in expansive plateaus or flat areas where I hunt. I like to look for topography that stands out as well, not consistent up and down but topography with twists/turns and variability.
- Feed and Cover. Look for ground with exposed south and west facing hillsides that provide ample feed, but also with cool/dark north facing slopes for escape cover. Again, depending on time of year, they may be spending more time in one of these locations over the other.
- Travel routes. I actually don't put too much emphasis on this in the beginning. A random saddle or low spot may very well make sense as a travel route, but if there aren't elk there, or the rest of the ground isn't any good, then what's the point? I spend more time looking for what I think would be feed areas and bedding areas because that is what the animals need to live there. Once I've confirmed that, then I start trying to understand how they use the landscape.

Maps
- I use topo as much as satellite, sometimes more. I use 3D satellite like Google Earth and OnX 3D to get an idea of glassing points and where animals are visible from. Animals know when they're visible, and often avoid areas where they can be seen from roads and heavily used trails. But changing where you're glassing from to view areas you can't see right from the road often is all you need to see animals.
- Historical images. For sure on Google Earth, and maybe on OnX as well, you can browse historical imagery of areas. This may offer you a glimpse of the area at different times of year, to understand how it matures through the year. If you can find late summer or early fall images, it can help you find water sources that aren't visible by satellite earlier in the year.
- Compare to areas you know. If you have an area you know well, and know how the animals use it, try to find a match, or very similar looking piece of ground elsewhere, both with topo and satellite. I'll screenshot an area of a map that I know and like, and then reference it frequently while i'm looking at other maps. I've done this with success many times.

There is a lot there, and some of it may not apply to your area, but they are the things that I think about a lot when I'm e-scouting. If I was to try and narrow it down to 3 items they'd be the following.

- Proximity to people
- Topography i like to hunt and animals are likely to use
- Food/water/security

[Swede]

Rancho: Your question is a good one.
Elk habits vary a lot by the area they inhabit. Just e-scouting and planning a hunt around that is leaving most things up to luck. I hunted an area where the elk all headed to a posted ranch very shortly after the beginning of archery season. I have observed the elk by the hundreds leaving the national forest the evening before the season opened. It was due to a large influx of vehicles and campers, hunter going out calling and general human pressure. E-scouting would be worthless there. I hunted an area that the bulls left the forest to start collecting cows soon after the archery season opened. They came back about the third week of the season. Your e-map and satellite photos don't do a good job of explaining that. E-scouting is a great place to start, but on the ground scouting even if you are hunting at the same time is important. When you get a chance stop and talk to hunters that are willing to share information. I find that it is easier to get hunters to talk if you share what you are observing (seeing and hearing) or not observing first. Don't try to impress seasoned hunters. They know a rookie when they see one and are more likely to help you if you don't try to impress.
Indian Summer, I hope you are still reading here. How long to you sit and observe a hillside while on a spot and stalk hunt? I tree stand hunt, so I will wait at one place all day for days on end. I usually go in for lunch, but not always.
For me scouting is the key to my elk hunting, and it begins with e-scouting. Pay attention to Saddlesore. That old geezer has more elk hunting experience than anyone else here.

Here is how I approach e-scouting: I begin win a good topo map. I look for benches, saddles and possible springs. Proximity to good feeding areas may be valuable as well as travel routes to bedding areas. When looking for good places to hunt I generally avoid setting up near open roads and easy to hike ridges. I prefer to be on a side slope but not always. Once I have some place(s) to check farther I will look at the satellite imagery to see what the cover is like. I am wondering if the bench is a good-looking bedding area. Is there a spring nearby? Can I see game trails going to the spring? Right now, I am excited to check out a saddle that has about four springs withing 1/4 mile of it and there are four draws that come up to it. I think it might be on a major travel way for elk. I will not know for sure until I get there.

[saddlesore]

Thinking about this today. I checked a few areas I have hunted in the past with G.E. and then compared some photos I took while hunting those area. With both methods, there was no way I could readily determine where I might hunt or find elk. The country is just too large. I might pick some likely spots, but in comparison I have killed elk all those areas, but not the one I would pick from G.E. or even my photos .They all had elk in them, but a lot of times they were where I wasn't.

One smaller area, I killed four bulls and two cows, each shot was within 15 yards of other shots I killed elk from. Another area, I have killed two bulls and four cows within a 100 yards of each.This past season I went back there and killed the last cow. Another area I hunted long before G.E existed. I killed 8 bulls in 8 years running in the same big bowl.

Each of these areas I contribute to getting to know the area intimately and finding where the elk go from other hunters. Almost all kills were at first light during the first 20-30 minutes and being there well before light and before other hunters were even moving. Very, very seldom in the first few days of the hunt when other hunters were still sitting instead of moving.

Early years I killed elk by still hunting in thick nasty blow down timber. As I aged,and knew the country better, I ambushed more elk that were pushed by other hunters. Not necessarily the same day, but when they were moving into more secure country.

If people are seeing elk, but not killing them it is the person's fault,not elk. Because archery hunting requires close in hunting and waiting for the perfect shot opportunity, the hunter has to expect a low success rate and not figure it was an unsuccessful hunt. Especially if they even get to a full draw,but could not shoot.

[Swede]

Rancho: I think you can do well. From what I am reading, I believe you will need to slow down and exercise a lot of patience. Sitting and waiting in the forest is not a waste of time. It is a good strategy many times. Every elk outing should be a scouting/learning experience. At age 76 I am still a student. As a more advanced student that some, I have no issue with sharing what I have observed on my journeys through the elk woods. As I said before, best wishes. Let us know what you are discovering and how you do.

Swede

[RanchoSueno]

Rancho: I think you can do well. From what I am reading, I believe you will need to slow down and exercise a lot of patience. Sitting and waiting in the forest is not a waste of time. It is a good strategy many times. Every elk outing should be a scouting/learning experience. At age 76 I am still a student. As a more advanced student that some, I have no issue with sharing what I have observed on my journeys through the elk woods. As I said before, best wishes. Let us know what you are discovering and how you do.

Swede

Thank you! I will definitely be sharing my adventures forthcoming. Yes, you are absolutely right in needing to slow down and that is much of the goal. As well as getting out sometime before sunrise. In the past I wasn't really on my way until first light but the few times I was were some of the most exciting elk moments I have experienced

[Swede]

I suppose every bow hunter that calls can testify to moving away from our call location too soon. I have done it more than I like to admit. Most of us are in too big of a hurry. We believe we must make the play happen, so we move on. Offhand I can think of four elk that came in two full hours after I made my one call. These encounters were not random but were based on the elk coming to the call. I know this because they came exactly to where I called from or walked back and forth looking at where I called from. I killed four of those five and would have taken the other one except it went back to where it came from rather than come in closer. I had made the mistake of calling from a position that the elk could view without exposing itself to me. If I was where I called from it would have worked out, but I was about ten yards away and had too much brush in the way.
Another thing to know is that the location you call from should be situated so that the elk mush expose itself before it can verify it was not an elk that called. If they can determine it was a Nimrod that called, you just educated another elk. The forests are full of educated elk. I suspect a lot of elk get educated by catching our scent. We may not see them, but they too are more educated and going to be harder to fool in the future.
The good news is that we may be just one elk generation from having more naive elk. I don't believe they pass on information they have learned to the new calves in their nursery herds.

[saddlesore]

If they can determine it was a Nimrod that called, you just educated another elk. The forests are full of educated elk. I suspect a lot of elk get educated by catching our scent. We may not see them, but they too are more educated and going to be harder to fool in the future.
.

Good point Swede. I have been trying to tell people that for years. Every time someone calls in an elk then decides it is to small or whatever and then lets the elk bust them on purpose or not, the elk puts that back in their storage box.It only take few times for them to get call shy. Especially if it is not in peak rut.
I have raised and trained mules for close to 50 years. They are one of the most intelligent creatures of the equine world.Their memory is phenomenal. Do something wrong or right when they are foals and they will remember all their lives . An elk makes them look like they have dementia. Remember the hunter is playing a game and he/she goes home every nighty. For elk it is life or death.

[Lefty]

I did it again,,, exited before the post was fully loaded.

Escouting is like reading music, or blueprints: the more you do the easier it will become, find those places becomes easier amd will become more natural



toggle back and forth between Satellite and topo identify the tree types and look for that dense cover. Topo to find water and contour steepness,
often small springs or seeps will be on a topo, and you may never know they are there until you step in them

.



And let's face it the new 3D stuff is cool to look at.

[RanchoSueno]

Thank you guys! As I am sitting here having breakfast watching some youtube elk hunts I got to wondering; lots of folks talk about getting in to their hunting area dark and early to catch them going from feed to bed. They also say that morning hunts/first to bed aren't always easy to get the elk to want to commit with their full bellies, ready to nap. Is there a thing as being out too early? Does it hurt to post up near known bedding long before sunrise as long as the wind and thermals make sense even when they switch?

[saddlesore]

More of a chance catching them moving with full bellies than after they bed down when they are less likely to want to get up. Once bulls are in rut,they are more worried about finding cows or keeping them than full bellies

Catching them going to bedding areas or near bedding areas, is the key. However, going into bedding areas and getting busted will send the elk into the next drainage. Save that for the last day of the hunt,where you give it all you got and go home with tag punched or empty handed.

I always make sure I am in position about a half hour before I see that firsts tinge of light on the horizon you . As for the wind,you just have to deal with what you got.. Generally wind moves down hill in the AM and up hill in the evening. Then every thing in between.

At times you may bust elk as you move in, or you only see them when the have already past your spot, or they move into it as your are sitting there.That decision only comes from knowing the area you are hunting. If I knew the correct answer, I wouldn't have to spend ten days chasing the critters. I do know I won't see anything while I am laying in my bed roll waiting for light. Usually I am sitting there watching the elk and trying to see which ones have horns.

[Lefty]

Thank you guys! As I am sitting here having breakfast watching some youtube elk hunts I got to wondering; lots of folks talk about getting in to their hunting area dark and early to catch them going from feed to bed. They also say that morning hunts/first to bed aren't always easy to get the elk to want to commit with their full bellies, ready to nap. Is there a thing as being out too early? Does it hurt to post up near known bedding long before sunrise as long as the wind and thermals make sense even when they switch?

Too early,, I dont do that anymore hunting grizzly country...but my time hunting the desert sleeping in a tent I had a few times I could hear elk activity and be out following the herd hours before light.

You tubes can be a great source of information.. but some things need to be experienced. TV productions can all too often portray and are edited for highlights.
Also sometimes there are no solid rules that elk follow And some rules we as hunters don't get to break



Welcome to the addiction Im jealous of your excitement!

[saddlesore]

How do you E-scout this. This is 7-8 miles east to west and 6-7 miles from where I was standing to those rock peaks to the south known as the Castles.
Probably 100 spots one could put a pin on and take 4-5 seasons to cover them all. Every one of them could have had elk in them last week, next week, or the day you are there.

looking to the Castles.jpg (296.34 KiB) Viewed 643 times

[Swede]

As I have mentioned before, I tree stand hunt elk. I could place my stand in a good bedding area and wait there, but I very rarely do. Getting to the elk's bedding spot before they do is generally easy. Just like the three little pigs do, get there early. I prefer to place my stand outside but close to their bedding grounds, at a water hole along a well-defined trail, or better yet where several trails come together. I am a strong advocate for not calling from my tree. I call from a hidey hole of some kind. This may be a draw bottom, brush patch or from behind some large obstacle that the elk can't see behind without exposing themselves within bow range.
I agree with Saddlesore's points except his description of diurnal winds. When the sun comes up it starts heating the land. After sunset and until the land starts to warm up the winds are generally downwards. As the land starts to warm in the morning, the air currents are going to be uneven. The canyons and draws may stay in the shadows for some time while the open slopes may be exposed to the sun. During that hour(s) the wind seems to shift due to some places being warmer than others. As the sun stays up and the land warms more evenly, the winds become more consistent upslope. The diurnal winds stay that way until the sun sets and they transition back to downslope. Also, fronts can mess with the diurnal winds. Probably the best point to take from this is to either stay put when the winds are shifting or travel where the wind is still holding consistent until you need to shift your travel path or just stop and wait.
Indian Summer is well known for spot and stalk elk hunting with a long-range rifle. He has not said how long he waits from an overlook glassing for elk, but I suspect it can be several hours. If I have a good spot to ambush an elk from or to make a stalk from, I will wait hours. If I do not have a good spot, I would not wait at all. I would move on to where I have what I want as a vantage point. I do not go out to view the scenery. Others love the adventure and the great views available. Not me. I am elk hunting and totally focused on that. Probably that is why I do not have a lot of pictures to share on this forum. The point is to find a good place to wait that you can believe in and be patient. You will not see or hear as many elk as you would hiking all around, but you will have more you can shoot.

[Lefty]

I just watched the first 1/2 of Meat Eater , episode 181. Some solid basics. I know that filming adds a tough dimension and editing makes all look better.

We always always always when calling,, shooters should be set up to shoot.
And Never never never skyline when calling.

[RanchoSueno]

How do you E-scout this. This 7-8 miles east to west and 6-7 miles form where I was standing to those rock peaks to the south known as the Castles.
Probably 100 spots one could put a pin on and take 4-5 seasons to cover them all. Every one of them could have had elk in them last week, next week, or the day you are there.

looking to the Castles.jpg

If that is the unit I think it is, I have aaaalllllooooottttt of pins dropped to check out if I put in to draw it lol but I understand 110%! I still still get baffled walking the same ridge the past 3 years and each year I find something different/missed from seasons past

[Indian Summer]

Question: When you talk about escouting are you looking for areas that appear to have what it takes to hold elk or are you looking over an area where you have been and know the elk are there and are just trying to put together the pieces of the puzzle as to where they are at different times?

[Swede]

I think he is trying to come up with some solid plans by e-scouting where he wants to hunt. If I can do that without putting boots on the ground I.S. is out of business.

[RanchoSueno]

Question: When you talk about escouting are you looking for areas that appear to have what it takes to hold elk or are you looking over an area where you have been and know the elk are there and are just trying to put together the pieces of the puzzle as to where they are at different times?

Both, I want to be more confident in other units and better understand why I find elk where I have found them as well as using that for futuristically for build better strategies ambushing them

[RanchoSueno]

I think he is trying to come up with some solid plans by e-scouting where he wants to hunt. If I can do that without putting boots on the ground I.S. is out of business.

.... Well I am a woman lol and I live 1200 miles away from where I hunt so yes I want to get better at finding elk with the lack of adequate boots on the ground scouting

[RanchoSueno]

Believe me it's not for a lack of "want". I'd be all over the mountains if I could up root the whole family but that is not in the cards. I afford my own trips making my own income off our farm starting colts, selling herdshares and nubian goat kids. I am super limited but I put in the work. I workout to be pretty fit, i shoot my bow 365 days, i build my arrows so they maximize my lower draw weight and length. I study the area I am learning, I try to absorb every piece of material in regards to elk to make myself better.

[saddlesore]

Seriously, I'd try muzzle loader hunting for a couple of years. Put a few punched tags under you belt to gain confidence, experience, and have little bit chance of filling a tag. You could draw a cow or bull tag which would be an '"A" tag and then do archery ,OTC, with a "B" tag if you could do two hunts a year.

I'd bet most first time elk hunters will go 4-5 years without being successful when the success ratio is about 18% with rifle. Switch to archery and you cut that success rate in half almost.

[RanchoSueno]

Seriously, I'd try muzzle loader hunting for a couple of years. Put a few punched tags under you belt to gain confidence, experience, and have little bit chance of filling a tag. You could draw a cow or bull tag which would be an '"A" tag and then do archery ,OTC, with a "B" tag if you could do two hunts a year.

I'd bet most first time elk hunters will go 4-5 years without being successful when the success ratio is about 18% with rifle. Switch to archery and you cut that success rate in half almost.

I'll definitely look into it!!

[Swede]

My apology for using the wrong pronoun to refer to you. I am not sure what your handle means either. My guess is that it is something on the order of "dream rancher".
I have nothing against anyone trying to better their hunt in any legal way possible. I think you can make educated guesses about where you should hunt after doing some e-scouting. I do and have for years. Sometimes my guesses prove to be good, sometimes they are not. That is why I have 15-20 places to check out when I go scouting. Since you cannot make two trips per year to your area, scout while you hunt. I make two trips per year and am always scouting.

[RanchoSueno]

Its my ranch's name "Rancho El Sueño" which translates to "The Dream Ranch". Thank you all for the input! I don't think September can come quick enough

[Tigger]

Somehow I missed this thread! Belatedly I will welcome you to the forum. Just a friendly piece of advice, when interacting with some of our miscreants (cough, cough, Swede), keep one hand on your wallet and use small words. Probably best to type really s-l-o-w-l-y as well so he can understand!

I, too, live a long way away from the mountains and am relegated to escouting. One thing I have learned is to use Google Earth to look at your area from all different angles. Really see it from high, low, east, west, north, south, left a little, right a little, etc. Once in a while, you pick out a small bench. Bingo!

What on earth is nubian goat kids? I could google it, but somehow that seems like cheating.

I see purple on your hat. You must be a Vikings fan. Good. Real good.

[RanchoSueno]

Somehow I missed this thread! Belatedly I will welcome you to the forum. Just a friendly piece of advice, when interacting with some of our miscreants (cough, cough, Swede), keep one hand on your wallet and use small words. Probably best to type really s-l-o-w-l-y as well so he can understand!

I, too, live a long way away from the mountains and am relegated to escouting. One thing I have learned is to use Google Earth to look at your area from all different angles. Really see it from high, low, east, west, north, south, left a little, right a little, etc. Once in a while, you pick out a small bench. Bingo!

What on earth is nubian goat kids? I could google it, but somehow that seems like cheating.

I see purple on your hat. You must be a Vikings fan. Good. Real good.

They're dairy goats, here a couple from this past kidding

[Tigger]

Ah, cute little buggers! Sounds like you have your hands full. I may have missed it, but do you do your hunts solo?

I just reread your original post. To answer one of your questions, we pick an area to hunt for a day. Based on what we see/don't see we come away with 3 scenarios. First, there are a ton of elk in the area and we should come back tomorrow. Sometimes we may modify our approach, but back to that area. Secondly, there are no elk or not enough and we change areas and hunt somewhere else the next day. Those are the easy to outcomes. The last scenario is somewhere in the middle. Yeah, there are elk or sign, but do we want to spend another day in there? Is there enough sign to warrant another day? Did we bump them out? Is there pressure other than from us? Was there bugling? The last scenario is the toughest. We may give it a rest and come back in a few days.

As far as resources, Randy Newberg has a nice escouting series on YouTube. But the best overall archery resource for me has been the ElkNut content. Paul posts here occasionally and is a wealth of information. He has an app I would highly recommend and if you can find one of his Playbooks, mortgage your house or whatever it takes to buy it. the first bull I shot with my bow....I swear he read the playbook as he did EXACTLY what it said he would do.

Also, if you have a scenario that you would like opinions on, post it up here and we will all give you our thoughts. Remember to use small words for Swede!

[RanchoSueno]

Thank you!! I really really appreciated that answer and will be using those thought processes this coming September. First, year I went out with my brother and it was a blast BUT it's hard to find a hunting partner that will meet your expectations and has the same goals. He is much too reserved and out for the pretty views. So, Ive gone the past couple of seasons solo. I do sometimes lose motivation and it makes it rough regathering the discipline to keep going. My husband is a diehard whitetail hunter and happily admits that elk just aren't up his alley. So it's just little ole me. The plan is to haul out my two ponies this year so I have some backcountry companionship, transportation to get in a tad farther and pack out buddies. My mare is as broke as they come. I've shot whitetail off her and had her drag them back to the house so it'll be a fun element to have. I've pretty much done everything with her necessary to survive a wilderness adventure. I also made some phone calls in the local area and found a ranch that is extremely close to stay with them which I think will definitely up morale. I'm usually truck camping to stay mobile and have packed in with my hammock but swinging in the trees all night is just not for me

[RanchoSueno]

Also I have the elknut app and have since 2020 just on Monday, I had a phone conference with Paul getting my ducks in a row. I feel pretty confident with my calling ability but I definitely need to learn what I'm saying and why I'm saying it as well as what Im hearing

[Tigger]

Do you hunt turkeys? I have started hunting them about 4 years ago or so. I find a lot of similarities between calling elk and turkeys. I think the biggest challenges are knowing what call to make and when to make it. How to learn? Well, by goofing it up a bunch of times obviously!

[RanchoSueno]

I have gone out but I'm just not a fan of bird hunting in most cases though I will pop a grouse on an elk hunt. I managed to nab two with the same arrow last season

[Swede]

Paul's description on how and where to set up to call elk in is timeless. It is excellent. I cannot say the same for his council on calling and run and gun. It was fine here in Oregon 30-40 years ago. Now we have hunter overload, and the elk seem to have a PhD in imitation elk. If you are in an area where there is significant hunting pressure, and you are trying to locate elk, slow down and call much less frequently. I have killed 5 elk that came in 2 hours after my last call. They came to the exact location I called from and were looking at that spot for the bull as they approached. There was no question what they were looking for, but they had waited 2 hours to check it out.
I have had bulls come close and scream at me after I had called from good cover. The trouble I had was that even though I had moved away from where I had called from, they would not approach close enough for a shot. Some elk get very call shy. They have that PhD in Nimrod avoidance to go on.

[Swede]

Here is another point I got to thinking about while exercising today.
Be careful about attributing too much significance to just a few experiences. Time of season, different places and a host of other things can and will often affect how well some technique works. Just because something worked a couple of times does not mean it is a great place or technique. The reverse is also true. I have come up with hypothesis based on several experiences where elk reacted the same, but after more experiences I had to attribute it to luck. You cannot take much of value from a lucky experience.
Years ago, a man hunted western Oregon clear-cuts for deer. He claimed that deer liked to hear him whistle out a tune. Deer like music was his hypothesis. I suppose a buck heard him whistling from a log landing or a stump where he sat. When the deer got up to look around the hunter shot his buck. I would not argue the old man's trick will not work. I am just not going to use his technique.
That said we do not all have to reinvent the wheel either. We can and should learn from each other. That is one of the great values for forums like this. When you read something that interests you ask some questions.
One character said he had a bull respond to his fart one day. Obviously eating a breakfast of half cooked beans for breakfast is the way to get elk.

[RanchoSueno]

My only encounters have been run and gun calling. Everything you aren't supposed to do like calling along a main trail chirping mews most of the way in (lol) it worked most likely by sheer luck and right place/right time. My coolest was after a i hiked in a .5mile in the dark and stepped off the trail to bugle thinking gotta get away from the trialhead because everyone bugles there. Sure enough a bull responded immediately about 200yds from the trailhead. It was a textbook calling situation and I got in close. The enxt day I reapproached and beat up a tree in frustration after I blew some cows off the mtn. It must have sounded like an advertising sequence because the 6x6 bull came in running. I had an arrow knocked and bow drawn but I had knelt to one knee and he circled away on to my right right to 30yds. I was all froze up and just in awe that it even worked out that I couldn't even pull it together to swing my bow across and pop him. It was also only my 2nd year with a bow and I only had a deer or two under my belt. I definitely learned that my first two elk seasons were above average and not the typical elk hunt. Which is why I am here trying to figure out how to have more opportunity at success. So far I've read Radical Elk Strategies, Elk Talk/Elk Tactics/Elk Hunter(3 book series), Where to Find Elk in CO? By Ed French, 3 other basic elk hunter books with generic information and now I am making my way back through the ElkNut app. I have learned a couple things in my reading in regards to seasonal food sources that I think has been really resourceful in helping my topography studies

[Swede]

I am not a big advocate of run and gun bow hunting. It is my experience that I have more elk encounters and see more elk hunting that way but get fewer. I know it works at times, but it varies from place to place. If I was going to a limited entry unit that took a lot of points here in Oregon, I would be more inclined to hunt that way. Still, I have several friends with a lot of elk hunting experience that have tried run and gun bow hunting our premium units and returned home empty. They too had stories of close encounters.
I think you do well to read all the books you can and watch some good videos. I have been disappointed with the videos I have picked up over the last few years. They are long on killing a lot of animals, but short of useful information to help other hunters. The old Wilderness Sound and Stoney Wolfe videos were good in my opinion. Even if I did not learn a lot the stories were fun.
Getting elk where there are other people is not all that unusual. I hunt from a camp that is a major visitor destination. People from all over the world stop in there to camp or just see the sights. I hear cars, trucks, motorcycles, kids screaming and dogs barking on a regular basis. Nobody realizes I am sitting in a tree stand not far away. My friends and I have killed at least 10 elk there. You can be sure I do not make a lot of calls there. I make one short location bugle at first light then climb up into my stand and just wait. The place works for us because it is on an elk travel route. As they go through on their circuit, they go pass my stand.

[Indian Summer]

Wow, this thread really took off. Based on one of your previous posts, I will say this. No matter how good you are at e scouting or even at elk hunting you will never be able to go on a map and then find elk everywhere. Mainly because elk aren’t everywhere. They travel all over their home range, but I would guess that they spend the majority of their time on 10% of the landscape.

To be more accurate with your e-scouting efforts you would have to know a little bit about the elk in that area. In the places I hunt in Montana, the elk are very reluctant to feed out in the open until after dark. With lots of burns in the area there is plenty of feed around. But in my experience, I think that elk in those areas just leave the high grass is in the meadows for when they really need it after the snow piles up.

In Wyoming, the elk act like they’re on television. They stand around in the open feeding in the morning sometime for several hours. They come out to feed well before dark too. If the weather is bad they might come marching out into a meadow 3 or four hours before dark. By nature they make their living on grass in more open areas. This even holds through an archery season when there is plenty of forage in the timber. Those elk just have different habits.

The other thing is that there is nothing on a topo map or satellite image that will guarantee elk use an area at all even if it has everything they need. I know a place that looks like an absolute gold mine on an on a map and on satellite images and it has elk all around in adjacent drainages. But no elk there. Elk wander through there occasionally while traveling from one place to another. But they don’t camp out there. It is certainly not the place to invest your time. Meanwhile on a map it looks like one of the best areas around. Lots of different potential reasons for that.

As long as there are elk in a given area, I don’t find it very hard to pick out the high percentage places to begin looking. While you doing that you should mark some of the highest vantage points that offer views of open or semi open slopes. No scouting or even miles on your boots can replace what you see from the right glassing spots. Plus you don’t disturb the elk while you’re perched up there looking.

Generally speaking elk take the path of least resistance. They don’t like to stand around on a steep hillside anymore than we do. They only navigate steep slopes when there’s a reason. Either heading somewhere to bed or feed or to escape. So, just look at the map and ask yourself where you would go. They travel along the contours on the flatter benches and cross ridges in the low spots. Bed according to the current weather patterns.

If you are going to e scout an area and come up with a hit and run plan to confirm whether or not there are elk there you should have two areas that are maybe to 3 miles away from there to check as well. Sometimes 1 mile or even one major ridge can make all the difference in the world.

[>>>---WW---->]

Joe pretty much knows what he is talking about! Read his first paragraph over and over until it is burned into your brain. Especially that 10% of their home range he is talking about. That will be the honey hole you are looking for! Will they be there every day? Nope! But, they will be there a majority of the time. I've seen the honey holes I personally liked to hunt go dry for sometimes as long as a week or so. But you can always count on them getting hot again real soon. That is the 10% of their home range you are looking for.

Get yourself a GOOD set of optics and park your tail on a good vantage point where you have had some success in the past. Do this during the prime hunting times of the morning and evening and you will soon pick out those ( 10% ) areas that will most likely never even show up on a topo map. And try a location bugle sparingly. If you get a response, glass it out . But don't over do it with the location sounds and never answer a bull any sooner than he answered you.

And if you are lucky enough to find that honey hole, hunt it wisely. Never let them know you are in there with them. If the wind or thermals change, get out of there. Nothing messes up a good area or blows the elk out like scenting up the place. You work long and hard to locate the herd. If you blow the out you'll probably spent the rest of you hunt trying to re-locate them!

[Swede]

I enjoy reading I.S.'s and WW's thoughts on elk these hunting matters. I agree with what your take on things but have a couple of questions. Do you think spot and stalk is a good bow hunting tactic? Under what conditions would you want to try a S&S challenge? How would you approach a herd of cows and calves on the move? Would you try any calling? If so, when, how, and what?

Patience and perseverance lead to filled elk tags. Impatience leads to frustration.

It has long been my conviction that new elk hunters would be better off leaving their calls in camp and learn to hunt elk to the point that they can use the call as a tool with a plan and purpose. Going around tooting in the woods, just trying to hear or see an elk is not an effective way to get one. It is an effective way to educate and run them off.
I still remember after many years this young man heading out this dead-end dirt road I was walking out on. He had an elk bugle hanging around his neck and a string of 6-8 very expensive looking wood barreled cow calls. Everything he had was new and expensive. A big sign around his neck saying "Rookie" would not have made the matter clearer. I do not know if he ever determined there were elk around the area, but I am sure they knew he was.

[saddlesore]

Up until about ten years ago, I did not even sit at a location the first1/2 hour or so.I would head for the dark nasty timber that usually had a lot of down timber. It took me a lot of years to perfect sneaking up on elk. Some were feeding, some were just hanging out, and some were bedded down. At very most I gave, l used a small cow chirp every once in awhile. It had been many years since I had even used a bugle. Three things I did were, pay attention to the wind and work against it, use my binoculars to spot small portions of an elk, and move slow. It took quite a few years to master the move slow bit. Every year when I thought I was moving slow enough, I found I had to move slower yet. A snap of twig, cough, or some small insignificant sound would blow it for a100yards. I shot a lot of elk at bow hunting range.

I remember one small bull in particular. Last day of season. Everyone had left for home except my brother. The bull come buy me right at day break, but I was in thick aspen that I could not get a shot,. It was the only elk I had seen in 9 days. I trailed it about 3/4 of a mile and it went into some of that nasty stuff. I entered into it about ten yards, sat down against a tree and gave a cow chirp. . The bull jumped up not five yards away. It had bedded down behind some big downed logs. It could not see me and I could only see part of him. I was able to see enough of one antler to makes sure he was legal. Slowly I raised the 1886 lever rifle with iron sights, and threaded a 400 grain bullet between two horizontal logs into the front of his chested. He reared over backwards and all I heard was crashing of timber for a few seconds or so and then quieted. He piled up under some logs, all twisted in them. It took quite awhile and get him processed, then I went back to camp, got my brother and mules. I think that was as far as I ever carried an elk because I could not get the mules in close enough. It was not spot and stock though.

With enough practice one can sneak up on an elk. Where I hunted, glassing was not an option. With spot and stock it is very hard to see an elk ,then get close to it without them seeing you. If they are father away , and you start towards them, more than likely they will be gone before you get there. As Joe said, you have know the elk in the area, and know that 10% of the area to hunt it effectively. JMHO

This is where he fell.

blow down elk - Copy.jpeg (23.56 KiB) Viewed 434 times

[RanchoSueno]

Thank you all!! I was surprised to click on and see so many more responses. Believe me I am listening and putting away every nugget of info y'all are sharing. Also in regards to escouting, I hopped on google earth and found their 360 tilt view in 3D was waaayyyyy better than OnX 3D. I was able to view every spot I had found/seen elk and see some hidden benches and other terrain features. Made a lot of sense to see it at all angles.

[saddlesore]

Like trying to take a drink out of a fire hose.

[>>>---WW---->]

SWEDE: to answer your question about how I would approach spot and stalk. I can answer that question in two words. (Very Carefully) ! Elk and deer have eyes that are designed to pick up movement. So stalking them would have to be at a snails pace and using every bit of cover you can find. I have a secret little tip I use to get within rock throwing distance of whitetail deer. But it won't work on elk.

Basically, I'm a caller. I've spent way too many years learning the ins and outs of calling. And I'm still learning. If I couldn't call an elk in, I doubt I would get any pleasure hunting them at all. There is simply nothing better than beating a wild animal at his own game on his home turf.


































t

[Swede]

I can answer that question in two words. (Very Carefully)

I have read of hunters waiting for days to find just the right place and opportunity to make a stalk on a particular critter. Then they may take hours to get into position for their one-shot opportunity. Everything needs to be perfect to pull off a successful stalk. One shift of the wind and you are busted. A cow moves and looks your way at the wrong time, ditto. I find calling to be more and more problematic. In 1990 and before it was easier where I hunt to call elk than it has become in the 2000s. It can still be done, but it takes more finesse and a little more luck now.

For Rancho and any other person trying to pick up something useful on this thread, I would say Vince, Bill and I have over 50 years elk hunting apiece, and each of us have killed a lot of elk. I am probably the least but have brought down over 30 elk. We all have had different experiences. We have hunted differently in different areas. Look for common points of advice. You might try experimenting with something just one or two of us point out but recognize it may not fit everywhere all of the time. I feel confident in saying the common recommendations we are we are bringing out are tried and true elk hunting tips. Just because something worked once does not mean it is a good tactic. For what it is worth.

[Lefty]

We all have had different experiences. We have hunted differently in different areas. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Just because something worked once does not mean it is a good tactic.

Im just going to bounce off of some of everyone's comments regarding elk hunting.

As a newer elk hunter, I suspect you are a lot like many of us were, Sucking up every bit of information possible. And what works for one seems to not work for others Some prefer hunting one way or another. You will work your way into what you want as a elk hunter

i will brag and say this forum is a place that has a lot of unique experiences.

Now my perspective as a relatively new archery elk hunter. I think this is my 15th year.
I dont have the years behind me of an elk kill pile However Ive had lots of outdoor experiences most never will, Most hunters judge their success by the kill. A kill is only part of the hunt for me
"My father-in-law use to say why ruin a good hunt by killing something"
Archery season hunting rutting bulls is so different than winter muzzleloader hunt, and October or November Rifle hunts. Spot and stalk was how it is done in the Idaho deserts. However, I enjoy calling elk, in the timber I have limited abilities and spend too much time waiting in travel areas with proximity to load game in the ATV or pickup.

I dont have the patience to stay still in a tree stand

the above 5x5 is 100 yards from my blind

Spike in front of the box blind

spike walking buy opening week 96 degrees small.JPG (41.05 KiB) Viewed 402 times