Do Cows Nervous Grunt Too...

[2Tangled2]

If they do, how would you use that against a bull who had just laid a nervous grunt on you while you were approaching his bugles? The reason I ask is that this happen to me this year in Idaho, and I first responded back to his initial bugle with chuckles (his calling card call I'd heard off and on for a couple of weeks of trying to figure whether he was a herd bull, satelite bull, or both) when he snuck in on my approaching sounds with a few soft cow calls placed downhill of him. I was hoping he would come down from about 70 yds into the jungle I was in to investigate. After what seemed like a few minutes of dead silence, I figured he would belch out a nervous grunt, and I was waiting to jump right over his with my own. When he finally grunted, he also added some 5-6 chuckles along with it, so what the heck, I did the same, and for the next hour and a half we were in a Mexican Standoff that I won't soon forget. I was able to sneek up to him to within 30 yds breaking branches off of bunched trees that I could sneek behind and bugle, and nervous grunt whenever he would, always on top of his. At 30 yds, I could finally see his body from about the last rib back with his vitals, shoulder, and most of his head in the bushes, perfectly broadside. Three times I either bugled, or NG with chuckles, breaking and racking branches on the trees I was hiding behind, and he would start racking the bush in front of him, but he would step back a couple of steps each time giving me a perfect broadside shot. But the Lucky Charms weren't with me, each time I would step out from behind the bunched trees I was behind, draw and settle my pin, he would hear the dried, parched timber under my feet, and like an accordian, he would step back into the bushes and look down for the bull he thought was approaching. I would step back behind the trees again, and we would replay the scenario all over again, until the last time I stumbled back down the hill when I drew the bow back, and he didn't like that for some reason. Now, I know that some of you are going to say what the hell are you complaining about, but I'm still anquishing over whether I should of stood my ground, nervous grunt back with some cow calls, and stomping around, but I don't recall that in ElkNuts Playbook. This is my first time on this forum, presenting a question because over the last six years of lurcking on all these archery elk hunting forums, I've learned to appreciate Paul's, and all you other knowledgeable elk hunters opinions, and expertise. Thanks for any and all responses, and be kind to me, I'm getting old...

[Swede]

I have never heard a cow do a nervous grunt. Your bull was suspicious of you. I think I would have found a shooting lane, then thrown an egg sized rock into cover, off to the side of the bull. I would do this to see if he would turn and go to the shooting lane. It is obvious he knew where you were and was avoiding you.
When a bull comes in to my call, sometimes they will hang up at 40-60 yards and pace back and forth a couple times. Then they turn and leave if they can't get a visual on what called them. I have never had a cow pace back and forth like a bull either. To beat the pacing back and forth bull, you either need a decoy, a second hunter, (the shooter), or move forward about 30 yards after calling to reposition yourself.

[>>>---WW---->]

You really need to beat them to the punch when using the nervous grunt. He ask you to show yourself. Not only that, but when he let out those few chuckles after the grunt, he was asking you to not only show yourself, but he expected you to come to him as well.

I can't believe you had a mexican stand off with him for as long as you did. Most bulls would have become suspecous long before that amount of time.

But here are a couple of things you might try if you run into this situation again. First of all, your setup could have been alot better. You should have been in front of the bush instead of behind it where you didn't have a shooting lane. Let your camo work for you! Another thing would be to bark (grunt) at him first before he does it to you. This may give you just a little bit of an upper hand.

Another think that has worked for me in the past is to give him a nice sweet mew after he has beat you with the nervous grunt. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

If he is a little ways out when he grunts and chuckles, you can answer with some mews. He expects you to come to him so you need to give him a reason why you can't. This is where you might try a young non intiminating bull squeal. He'll think another bull is holding you up and it may be just enough close the deal for you and bring him on in. And don't forget to do a little tree rakeing and stomping around to make it sound more realistic.

If none of this works, you can go into step 2 or 3 of the threat. You'll find out more about that in your playbook.

[2Tangled2]

Thanks guys, I didn't think the girls did the nervous grunt thing. I knew I should have grunted first, but I couldn't get myself to pull the trigger because of the lack of experience, and possibly the confidence, and conviction in that kind of situation. Would you add the chuckles to the nervous grunt, or just grunt? WW, it didn't even occur to me to move in front of the batch of trees I had snuck up behind. I'm going to have to handle the heat of the moment better, but I'm always afraid of messing up a good situation, and being a little to aggressive. Thanks again, I'll write this down in the remarks column of the Playbook.

[Swede]

What I was suggesting was intended to give you an idea on how to deal with a "mexican standoff". WW is right on with his comments when you have a fresh start, except I think he too is using an act of despiration by going to the threat on a bull with no cows. It is about on par with my rock throwing. Maybe WW can come back and explain if he sees something I have missed.

[>>>---WW---->]

Swede, It's not so much weather this bull has cows but instead he has shown that he wants cows. He showed this when he chuckled. So my theory was to let him know that I was a cow. But I was unable to come to him because another bull was holding me back.

Now as for the actual threat, or use of it, you are right. That is an act of desperation as a last resort when all else has failed. However, just letting him know that another bull is holding me from coming to him could be interperted as a mild beginning to the threat by some people. That is why I mentioned the threat in the first place, but only as a last resort.

Now as for the title of this thread,(Do Cows Nervous Grunt Too...) my answer would be they certainly can if they so choose. Any time an elk is nervous or suspecous they can use it. Male or female makes no difference. Watta ya think?

[Swede]

Thanks WW. Your thoughts are always insightful. I agree that a cow could do a nervous grunt. I have just never seen or heard it happen. Maybe someone here can speak from eperience on the subject. This one thing I have found out over the years of hunting and hanging out in the forest: never say "never" or "always".

[>>>---WW---->]

I'm glad you think my thoughts are insightful, at least part of the time. I have one heck of a time expressing my thoughts, especially when it comes to expressing them with my two finger search and destroy method on the keyboard. LOL!

[Swede]

It sounds like it could have been a nervous grunt, but no doubt cows will bark off an alarm. Like theelkhunter said, they usually leave right away when an alarm is sounded. I have enough experience, at messing up, to have had that situation play out over and over.

[buglmin]

The cows barked cause they were alarmed, and didnt run off cause they were unsure of what alarmed them. They were on alert, trying to see what had scared them...

[POk3s]

Call this what you want. Took it in the spring while bear hunting. If you ask me it's a nervous grunt.She had never seen a person and I stood up and then never moved. She was "nervous" and not knowing what I was. The picture isn't the greatest but the sound is all you really need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZhmkp09U7A&feature=plcp

[2Tangled2]

PKO, I remember seeing that video before, and saying to myself it sure sounded like the nervous grunts that I have heard bulls use before, dang I can't remember all this stuff. So my question still is could you use that grunt with some,I don't know what kind of specific cow calls, to draw him into you, even though the bull sounded off first? From now on I'll try and get off the first volley, but just incase I don't, maybe a back up scenrio. just thinking. I'm not going to have enough room in the Remark/Note section in the Playbook. Maybe I could purchase some more blank pages Paul, just kidding.

[Swede]

POK3s, I am convinced. What is interesting too, is how long she stayed around and how many times she barked.

[buglmin]

We've had cows bark at us and we bark back and they stand there looking at us, trying to figure out whats going on...soon, when you cow call to them sofdtly, they resume feeding and relax. The same thing with bulls when they bark, bark right back at them...call it what you want, but when they bark, its an alarm call signaling that theyve seen something that just aint right.

[POk3s]

I honestly don't know. Never tried it, but honestly, why not! I mean your'e cow calling, he's coming in, you haven't made any sounds as if to say "i'm a bull". You're simply a cow, or a few cows. He's coming in but hangs out.....bingo, toss out the nervous grunt and see what happens. What do you have to lose at that point? I'm not against using it and another little trick into the arsenal of calling can never hurt.

[MT_Nate]

It seems like the true "Get-The-Heck-Outta-Here" barks you hear don't have the squealing start that you hear in a nervous grunt (and what Trent had on his video). To me, the Get-The-Heck-Outta-Here bark always sounds like a giant spring going off. BWONG! Maybe I'm nuts and I'm hearing things...

[ElkNut1]

Yes, all elk can use the Nervous/Popping Grunt!! Combating it is situation dependent! When an elk is using this sound it's asking for an ID or visual, it really wants to see you & put its mind at ease that you are not a threat!! When conditions are right go right at them immediately, they are wanting to see you so go to them & do not worry about making too much noise in the process. Give a few mews stick to cover & have good wind, you will get close as they feel this new elk is coming to join them! This is not for all applications, feel each out & use a high odds approach!!

ElkNut1

[POk3s]

I have not listened to the video on the PC, only on my phone. To me, it sounds like that cow make 2 different sounds. Maybe I'm crazy

It's tough to say. I heard it in real life and still aren't sold on what she was doing. They were the same length of calls but sometimes it was rough sounding and like a "bark" but she wasn't reacting like she should if she was barking.... and sometimes she had more of your "normal" nervous grunt sound.